Advertising Vs Marketing

marketing vs advertising

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Marketing vs advertising podcast show transcript

Dave : This episode of Business Unplugged is sponsored by Bottle and Basket Convenience Store on Apsley High Street. Just our way of looking out for the little guy. They supply milk for our coffee and they’re always nice and don’t charge a transaction fee when I make a 75p purchase on my Visa. This episode is for you guys.

Ed : They don’t charge you a transaction fee?

Dave : Nope.

Ed : They’ve been charging me for years. I have to spend over four quid. Which means when I go in there at 6:00 AM sometimes, on a Tuesday morning to get milk, I have to buy four cans of Guinness as well to make up the cost.

Dave : I’ve never heard of Guinness and milk habit.

Ed : Well, I think we need to change sponsors.

Dave : So why are we here? Well, this time, and in this podcast, we are talking about advertising versus marketing.

Ed : So do they not like each other? Right. Is this like a playground fight?

Dave : I think it is like a versus. That was certainly how it started when I started researching it. I was like, this is a choice between, but of course-

Ed : They’re not mortal enemies?

Dave : They’re not mortal enemies at all. It turns out that the simple answer is, if you want to know that you’ve listened to at least two minutes of this podcast and learned something so you can go away, the thing to learn now is that advertising is just as subset of marketing. It cannot stand on its own at all. Whereas marketing is the whole sheboodle.

Ed : So you just summed up the whole podcast there.

Dave : That’s it. Let’s go.

Ed : Cool.

Dave : But there’s way more to it, right. So, sit tight.

Ed : This is a Dave podcast. This is the first time he’s been let loose so I accept no responsibility for the content of his [inaudible 00:01:33]. Unless it’s good, then it was all my idea. [inaudible 00:01:37]

Dave : As you see fit.

Ed : What is the definition of marketing?

Dave : When I looked into, I discovered, this is with there’s so much confusion. You know, when Seth Godin was asked this question, he just said flat out, the difference … What is marketing was asked and he said, “Well, that’s an easy answer. It’s not advertising.” And he was not trying to be cryptic. He’s saying the whole problem is that people assume that advertising is marketing. And it’s just a way of saying, “Buy this thing now!” It’s just the part of the marketing exercise where you say, “I’m ready to … for you to make a purchase.” And that’s a very small part.

Ed : Okay.

Dave : So, yeah. So-

Ed : So, in answer to the question, if I understand right, marketing is not advertising.

Dave : Marketing is not advertising.

Ed : Okay, good.

Dave : You can use it within your marketing, but it is not one and the same.

Ed : Okay.

Dave : And, just to illustrate that point, think about the fact that ad blockers are a thing, right? But you’ve never heard of marketing blockers. Because marketing isn’t something that riles people, but advertising is. So, it’s really important to understand that, when you are doing an ad, you are specifically pinching people’s attention. They might not necessarily want to buy or be interested in that thing. Unless you’ve got a really targeted list. But, most of the time, that’s what you’re doing with advertising. Whereas marketing, you’re attracting people to the ideas or the products or services that you’ve got. So, quick fire round-

Ed : So, what you’re really saying is that advertising is the obnoxious drunk at a party. Marketing is the slick guy everyone’s chatting.

Dave : You would hope so.

Ed : Yeah. Okay.

Dave : That’s a-

Ed : I’m glad that’s how you summed it up nicely.

Dave : That’s the way to be.

Ed : Which one are you at the party? ‘Cause I know which one I am.

Dave : Definitely not Don Draper. I know that. Right. It’s time for a quick fire round, just to see if you understand everything that we’ve talked about up till now. You ready?

Ed : Should we name this? Let’s give it like a quiz name, or something?

Dave : Ah, you mean, like a totally new jingle that we haven’t done before?

Ed : Or no, we can name the segment.

Dave : Yeah. So, I do a voice, like.

Dave : It’s time for Quick Fire Round!

Dave : Like that. But not that.

Ed : It could be that.

Ed : No, I mean. Do we name the section?

Dave : Well, I’ve just named it Quick Fire Round.

Ed : But that’s it. That’s been used a million times.

Dave : Oh.

Ed : Surely we can come up with something more creative.

Dave : Slow Fire Round.

Dave : Quick-

Ed : No.

Dave : Quick Sand Round.

Ed : The Quick Fire Round is like-

Dave : I know, it’s [crosstalk 00:03:52]

Ed : [crosstalk 00:03:52] the definition of the quiz. You know, you have things like The Chase and Who Wants to Be a Millionaire. Let’s name this section something more creative.

Dave : Fine.

Ed : Something that people can latch unto.

Dave : Okay.

Ed : Any ideas? I tell you what, we’ll just put it in the jingle of the name-

Dave : Put it in the jingle-

Ed : [crosstalk 00:04:06] work out later.

Dave : Yeah.

Video: Couldn’t think of no name. So we’re giving no name. Couldn’t think of no name. This is the quiz with no name. This is the quiz with no name. Shoo-be-do-be-wow.

Dave : Okay. Are you ready “insert whatever the line is” round?

Ed : Yes.

Dave : Test-

Ed : [crosstalk 00:04:34] by the way.

Dave : Thank you. Tesla’s insane mode. Marketing or advertising?

Ed : Ah, marketing.

Dave : Because?

Ed : Because it isn’t advertising.

Dave : It’s alright. You have learned something. I was hoping for a more elaborate answer.

Ed : Okay.

Dave : No, I’m fine with that.

Ed : Also, because it’s something that people are talking about. They wanna be a part of. Makes them feel good.

Dave : Pulls them in, right?

Ed : Yeah.

Dave : Exactly. There’s no sell there.

Ed : Does everyone know what insane mode is?

Dave : Probably not. But they can go and Google it and they’ll find it real quick.

Ed : Okay. Quick fire round.

Dave : It’s not that quick, suddenly. It’s slow fire round, like I said. Alright. John Lewis, Christmas ad. Marketing or advertising?

Ed : Both.

Dave : Both. Good. So discuss.

Ed : Well, it’s an advert, you know, because it is on telly.

Dave : It happens to be. Yes.

Ed : The wrap around isn’t particularly it. But people love getting involved with that, sharing it, talking about it, crying over it.

Dave : Exactly. No one just watches it and goes, “That was it.”

Ed : “That was informative.”

Dave : So, what happens afterwards is-

Ed : Do you know what? It’s not an advert at all, because it doesn’t advertise anything. It’s a story that is relevant to feel good. That has nothing to do with the products they sell. But the result of it is people get … you know, they become one with it. They actually want to watch it.

Dave : That’s a … That is … you’ve changed my mind. I was thinking it was both, but I like that idea. Because it doesn’t actually sell, I mean, you, technically it’s the John Lewis ad. You do associate with it.

Ed : It’s almost a sponsor-

Dave : But by association-

Ed : It’s like a sponsored story.

Dave : It’s actually not an advert.

Ed : Yeah.

Dave : When we, technically … it has been called one, but it is not advertising in the true sense.

Ed : Alright.[crosstalk 00:06:03]

Dave : So, there we go. Great.

Ed : So we know, if it’s not advertising, it’s marketing.

Dave : It’s marketing.

Ed : Okay, good.

Dave : You should see a pan-

Ed : Quick fire round!

Dave : Fine. Dior perfumes scratch and sniff magazine inserts from the 80’s, marketing or advertising?

Ed : Dior and scratch and sniff together.

Dave : That’s the only reason it’s in here.

Ed : This is not the premium sort of-

Dave : But they did have them. They were a thing.

Ed : I know.

Dave : You were supposed to experience the perfume.

Ed : They still exist. They’re just not called scratch and sniff. They’re probably called, like a-

Dave : I call them that.

Ed : The perfumette. Or something like that. I wouldn’t say that’s an advert.

Dave : Old Spice. “The man your man could smell like.” Marketing or advertising.

Ed : Again, I’m getting a marketing on that.

Dave : I think, I think so. Like John Lewis. It’s just … it’s a marketing experience. Basically, you’re … people wanna talk about that. They’re not just consuming going in.

Ed : It’s slightly less … It’s an advert, because they’re talking about a particular smell, fragrance, that you can buy. But also … Yeah, it’s kinda getting you involved. It’s got more of a message than just “buy my smell.”

Dave : It’s hard not … it was hard not to talk about that one, wasn’t it? ‘Cause it was so out there.

Ed : Okay. Yeah.

Dave : So, I think that’s definitely a marketing experience. So, the pattern, that’s all of them, but the pattern, out of all of those, you … It’s hard not to feel pulled in to the campaigns. They work, right? And so, those are a marketing experience. The ad was the last part of the puzzle. So, that was just the mechanism by which it was delivered, but it was definitely a marketing experience. So that should help, I think, paint a picture of how marketing versus advertising works.

Ed : That was good. I enjoyed that game called,

Video: “This is the Quiz with No Name.”

Dave : Well done.

Dave : Okay, so now. If people know that ads are for them and the fact that there is such a thing as the ad blocker says that they know that that’s the case. Then they know that, also, like the advertiser, that it’s a numbers game and that you’re playing it with their time. So, you need to get specific first, so that people are getting the ads that they actually want. Now, yes there’s lots of tools for that, but you need to be knowing what your audience is and then put it in front of them. Gotta know your audience really, really well for that.

Dave : So, that’s the important point, I think, up till now. If that’s the case, how do you know you’re doing marketing and not advertising? Or if, to put more clearly, that you’re only adding advertising unto your already marketing structure. And-

Ed : Is that a rhetorical question?

Dave : It’s a new section, in fact.

Ed : Oh, okay.

Dave : But, well, it’s kind of a … it’s our quotes and stats combined section.

Ed : Okay.

Dave : So you’re gonna have to probably just insert the word “quote” and “stats” in the jingle.

Ed : So you need the jingle.

Dave : Yeah.

Ed : Okay.

Video: Look at those stats and quotes.

Dave : This is the section where we scour the internet in … well, I did. In search of quotations and stats that both enlighten and entertain. And, frankly, make it sound more urbane and sophisticated than we actually are.

Ed : Urbane?

Dave : Urbane. It’s a word.

Ed : Oh.

Dave : It’s hard to target a message to a generic 35 year old middle class working mother of two. It’s much easier to target a message to Jennifer, who has two children under four, works as a paralegal and is always looking for quick but healthy dinner and always wants to spend more time with her kids and less time on the housework.

Dave : Now, that’s Elizabeth Gardner, who is someone. I don’t know who.

Ed : You actually know this woman?

Dave : No. But the point of it is just attributing to who said that. But, I think that just illustrates the point. You got this really broad, “Everyone, look at this message!” Versus, “I’m only interested in you. I made this for you.” And I think is something that Seth Godin always talked about.

Ed : Right.

Dave : The feeling that something was made for you is a totally different experience to this something that someone’s trying to sell.

Dave : But on the stats front. And this will disappoint you slightly, ’cause we only got one stat. But, anyway. 81% of consumers have closed a browser or exited a webpage because of a pop-up ad.

Ed : 81?

Dave : 81.

Ed : I’m surprised that’s not 100.

Dave : Yeah.

Ed : But I also don’t think that’s a bad thing because there are so many pop-ups.

Dave : But it does tell you that people are willing to just get rid of the thing they’re looking for because of a pop-up ad.

Ed : Yeah, but I can always sorta argue that and say, people who also do click on those. And they could fill in emails and stuff.

Dave : Well, again, if you’re playing numbers, it’s a question … Look, if you’re playing numbers game or not, but this is what you’re dicing with.

Ed : Yeah.

Dave : You might be tuning off-

Ed : You gotta make a choice.

Dave : Yeah. You gotta make that choice. So that’s what’s happening. That doesn’t happen with just marketing generally. That happens with pop-up ads, specifically, just like advertising. Anyway-

Ed : Okay. Good point.

Video: Look at those stats and quotes.

Dave : Here’s something that in all those research I discovered, right, was … there was this campaign. Here’s how great advertising can only come out of considered marketing, right.

Ed : Okay.

Dave : So, if you’re watching the video, you can see and ad now. And, if you’re listening, all you’ll be able to see is a campaign poster for the U.S. state of Nebraska with a slug line that reads, “Honestly, it’s not for everyone.”

Dave : Now, at first blush, you could say … it’s a ironic, sort of, spoof on advertising, or something like that. You … it couldn’t be for real. But it is! It really is the latest campaign for Nebraska from the Nebraskan tourism board. And you have to hand it to them for brazenness. There’s gotta be something going on here. I’ll assume the fact that Nebraska might not be for me, but I still saw this and felt I’m being treated like an adult here, because I’m being pulled in to consider something that’s going on. And, it turns out that Nebraska is literally last on the list of places that Americans wanna visit on holiday.

Ed : Probably because they keep writing bad things about themselves in adverts. Their advert worked.

Dave : No. The old campaign used to be, “America’s Frontier” and no one went. But this is working.

Ed : More people are going to Nebraska because they’re saying negative things about it?

Dave : It’s early doors yet, but they are getting a lot of attention and they’re getting people thinking that this is … They’re thinking differently about Nebraska.

Ed : It’s kinda like when a film is so bad, that it gets cult status, like The Room.

Dave : In Nebraska, could be, yeah. Cult movie.

Ed : People wanna see the place because it’s so bad. They haven’t seen anything so bad before.

Dave : Nebraska could be the disaster artist of the 52 states.

Ed : The cult state.

Dave : But, I mean, that puts it behind Alaska. Okay, so.

Ed : Alaska’s amazing. I always wanted to go there. There’s no one there and there’s gold and huskies. It’s like my dream.

Dave : Yeah, but they’re not all in the same three square meters, I mean, you’re really gonna struggle to find them all.

Ed : Even better. I like the scenery. Anyway, we digress.

Dave : We digress. So-

Ed : So, there’s no stats come out on that yet?

Dave : It’s too early. It’s only … This is only … This is fairly recent.

Ed : So, it could fail completely and have the exact opposite thing.

Dave : I think they need more than a year to know if it’s working because these things take time. [crosstalk 00:12:45]

Ed : Yeah. Okay. But, you know what? Let’s pretend it did work.

Dave : Let’s pretend it did work. But the moment … But the most important thing is, you can’t just say, “Oh, the marketing hasn’t worked.” Unless people were just pouring to Nebraska immediately.

Ed : Well, it’s in Nebraska-

Dave : The point is to get people to think differently about Nebraska. And the problem is, everyone had this assumed status that it is a clichéd whatever.

Ed : Yeah.

Dave : But the thing they’ve done is, they’ve gone out and actually researched what Nebraskan actually think of Nebraska, for a start, and then used that deliberately. So, they when … Nebraskans will say stuff like, “There’s nothing to do here.” So, they’ve used that on billboards and then put, like, rafting pictures and stuff, which is actually what you can do in Nebraska.

Ed : There is rafting.

Dave : Yeah. And since there’s nothing to do. And it’s like [crosstalk 00:13:24]

Ed : That makes more sense. ‘Cause I was gonna say, if you’ve got a rubbish product, there’s no point [crosstalk 00:13:28]

Dave : There’s no point. But it is beautiful.

Ed : So they do have cool stuff there.

Dave : It’s a beautiful place to visit, and that’s the truth of it. But the problem is, it’s suffering from this cliched version that people have in their head.

Ed : Well, I think we should make a stand and say, if this podcast, or our business, ever makes enough money for us to afford a flight, we should go to Nebraska and podcast from there on a raft.

Dave : There we go. That’s a … You heard it here first.

Ed : So, just tell your friends about the show and then one day we can live our dream of seeing the worst state in America.

Dave : It might not be by then.

Ed : Well if … I’m not going if it isn’t. I’ll be brought there under false pretenses.

Dave : But the thing to think about is that hard work was done way before they got to the billboard ad making stage. They actually went and did this research, looked at the cliches, looked at how people are perceiving Nebraska and sought to change that image, ’cause that was the problem.

Ed : And that’s the marketing, right?

Dave : The product was great. There’s nothing … Nebraska is beautiful.

Ed : Just to make sure that you know, I’m learning here. That is the marketing.

Dave : That is marketing.

Ed : That picture is the advert.

Dave : The picture is the advert. But it could only have happened after research and considered marketing.

Ed : With the marketing.

Dave : Exactly. Now.

Ed : We’re learning a lot today.

Dave : As part of this exercise, I thought we would do the same exercise with Hemel. Make a new campaign slogan for Hemel. So, we’re asking you-

Ed : A new one? What’s its current one?

Dave : I don’t know. And what we wanted was that you, the listener, if you know Hemel, if you don’t doesn’t matter, do it anyway. As to let us know what a good slogan for Hemel would be, if you were a tourist and you wanted to attract people to the area. Or you might not.

Ed : We’re gonna give away a prize for this, aren’t we? We aren’t gonna tell you what the prize is. You have to wait and listen to the end of the show.

Dave : You have to wait [crosstalk 00:14:54].

Ed : It’s actually a very good prize. Email is biz, B-I-Z, unplugged at gmail dot com.

Ed : So, send in … what, a sentence?

Dave : Yeah, a sentence, so we just want … the … head it up with Hemel’s new slogan.

Ed : Yeah.

Dave : And, send us that.

Ed : Yeah.

Dave : And, to get you thinking, I’ve come up with my own one. ‘Cause, and … you can’t mention the magic roundabout. If you don’t know anything about Hemel, there’s a magic roundabout, which everyone talks about, which is boring.

Ed : Come on, let’s here your slug line.

Dave : Hemel. Trains leave every seven minutes.

Dave : So, it can be ironic.

Ed : To where? Which way … anywhere? Where are the trains going?

Dave : Alright, I’m a bit down on Hemel, aren’t I?

Ed : Whoa. I know from Apsley station, Dave, they go every half an hour, so it’s already one up.

Dave : Have you got a slogan off the top of your head?

Ed : Hemel. It’s got a canal.

Ed : Send in your slug lines. Biz unplugged, B-I-Z, unplugged, at gmail dot com. And, I reckon, if you send it in, you’ll probably win the prize, ’cause I can’t imagine many people would bother. So, if you want a prize …

Dave : I might send one in and see if it wins. ‘Cause I wanna-

Ed : Alright, ’cause the current prize I bought with my own money.

Dave : I want the prize.

Ed : I don’t wanna give it to you.

Dave : I want that prize even more now.

Ed : I’m gonna … Alright. We’ll announce the winner on the next show.

Ed : In summary, small … or one SME. Whatever you wanna call them. The thing to know, I would need to up our game. Wanna get into some new business. We want to make a nice promo. What would you say to them now, based on that?

Dave : I would say, “Fine, where does it fit into your marketing puzzle.” Make sure that it’s answering questions that people already have. Because, if it’s just going out there as the first thing that you’re doing, you’re just thinking ad, there may be a problem. May not be. It may be you’ve already got that amazing product that’s really go, so I don’t wanna second guess anyone. But I’d be willing to bet money that most SMEs have considered the advertising before they’ve really considered the whole marketing chain.

Ed : But, I don’t know what questions people have.

Dave : Yeah, no. Like I said, you can’t second guess that.

Ed : No, that’s the person saying that to you. Not me. We’re in a role play, now. So.

Dave : Oh, I didn’t see that switch.

Ed : You said … Yeah, I know. I didn’t really learn to … You never know when I’m gonna become a different character.

Ed : Yes, Dave. That’s really interesting and everything. But how do I know what questions people are asking?

Dave : That’s a bit of role play. I mean, there was a totally different character emerged there, so.

Dave : I don’t know the answer. So, what was the question again? You threw me with your acting.

Ed : Well, I’m not gonna use you because you clearly don’t know how to listen. Good day and good bye.

Ed : Oh, let me try again. You mentioned that … yeah, Dave is really, like, smart and stuff. I’m really confused because … I’m really confused, though, because I don’t know what questions people have to ask.

Dave : Well, there’s tools for that. So, if you’re meaning you’re not sure what people are looking for-

Ed : Well, yeah.

Dave : There’s digital tools for that.

Ed : How will I know it?

Dave : You go to BuzzSumo. You could find online why is it doing that. Go to Keyword Planner. And actually find what people are searching for in the first place. But, really, in your market research for your product, I presume you’re already answering, you’re solving a problem for people. So, maybe your marketing should be targeted around what that problem is and how you solve it.

Ed : I don’t know what we’re talking about so maybe I should pay you to do it for me.

Ed : Congratulations, folks. You’ve just made a sale.

Dave : So, next time you’re about to do a promo or flat out ad, just ask yourself, “Am I just doing an ad on its own or am I actually doing marketing here, and the ad is just a little be extra in my marketing plan?” That’s the thing to ask.

Ed : Lovely. It’s actionable.

Ed : So let’s move on to a section we’re gonna have regular basis, and this is your chance to win a prize every week. You know, to win it. Bizunplugged@gmail.com. And this is our book review section. Where we’ll read the books so you don’t have to bother wasting all your time. And we’ll summarize it quickly. Probably a jingle for that.

Dave : Probably.

Video: In the future, people won’t read books. They’ll just know everything. But, until then, we’ve made a book review. Because you’re not as clever as the people from the future.

Dave : That’s a nice jingle. [crosstalk 00:19:10] bothered if you didn’t.

Ed : Because [crosstalk 00:19:12] we made the jingles up after the show. Who knows what will happen there? Could’ve been weird.

Dave : Probably was. Right, so. The book that I’m reviewing is-

Ed : Do you want to get it?

Dave : And-

Ed : We’ll just show it to the cameras.

Dave : If you’re watching, we are reviewing “This is Marketing.”

Dave : The reason I wanted to do a review on this is because I have read plenty if Seth Godin and I was thinking, has he got anything else to say? And this one was like, honestly, cause I felt he’s covered everything.

Ed : You mean he’s paying [crosstalk 00:19:41]

Dave : No, I just felt like he’s always covered everything. I didn’t think there was anything left to say on marketing that he hadn’t already said.

Ed : I kinda see what you mean there, actually. Yeah.

Dave : And it just felt like, still felt like all new information.

Ed : He’s super smart.

Dave : He is super smart. And prolific, as well.

Ed : Just leave it there, and then I reckon we’ll tweet him.

Ed : And go, “Look, Seth, we’re promoting your book. Give us a shout out to your millions of followers.”

Dave : So, I’m gonna pick, just to pull you in a little bit to what’s going on in this book. The sort of things that Seth Godin’s trying to get you to think about, is … out of this … This is in the public forum, it’s a sample, actually, that you can find. So you’re not gonna actually … This is not plagiarism. I don’t know if it’s a risk of reading a book [crosstalk 00:20:24].

Ed : So, we’re summarizing the book here. This is your favorite bit from that.

Dave : This was, yeah … Well, this was certainly-

Ed : Oh, he’s not gonna tweet us now.

Dave : Should we put it back and then pretend it didn’t happen?

Ed : [crosstalk 00:20:36] fell in the bucket of glue.

Dave : It did.

Ed : No, it didn’t. Hang on. Let’s just-

Dave : That bucket of glue that we always have hanging about. We do actually.

Ed : Yes, we do have a bucket of glue.

Dave : That’s another story.

Ed : Alright. I’m just gonna hold it here like sweet Debbie McGee.

Dave : Yeah. Some people have a glue sniffing habit. I’ve got a really bad-

Ed : You got a bucket.

Dave : … glue sniffing habit. A bucket of glue in the kitchen.

Speaker 4: [crosstalk 00:20:52] a little weird that you put it there, now it’s-

Ed : No, we’re gonna keep that in.

Speaker 4: Oh, or-

Ed : You’re interrupting the show.

Speaker 4: Sorry.

Dave : At least you’re not on your phone [crosstalk 00:21:01]

Ed : He’s usually on his phone, just not listening. Alright, [Greg 00:21:04]. Thanks for interrupting.

Dave : Here’s the bit. In the opening section, he talks about, not mass, not spam, not shameful. He’s talking to marketeers and, in the summaries, the beginning, it says, “Every 300,000 years or so, the North Pole and the South Pole switch places. The magnetic fields of the earth flip. In our culture, it happens more often than that. And in the world of culture change that just happened, the true north, the method that works best is flipped. Instead of selfish mass, effective marketing now relies on empathy and service.” And I think, once you’ve seen it work, when you know you’ve connected with an audience who really just wanted that thing that you’ve got, and it’s not made for everybody, then that’s all you ever wanna do. And I think that, once you see marketing in that light, I don’t think you’d make an advert again.

Ed : Yeah. But let’s get to the important bit of that. How do the North and South Pole swap sides? There’s loads of land in the middle.

Dave : It’s magnetic poles. They just do it[crosstalk 00:21:55].

Ed : It just switches?

Dave : Yeah.

Ed : What happens when that happens, to us?

Dave : Then the compass doesn’t work.

Ed : What, we’re all gonna die?

Dave : No.

Ed : What happens to us?

Dave : We’re fine.

Ed : So the north, how long have we got left till that happens?

Dave : Well, it can happen any time.

Ed : I was worried about Brexit, Dave. Now I gotta worry about the poles switching.

Dave : All that will happen is your GPS won’t work and you’ll crash. But, you know, as long as you’ve got an old fashioned-

Ed : Why isn’t this more commonly known?

Dave : Really?

Ed : Yeah.

Dave : Ah. It’s no big deal.

Ed : But that was really good, the bit he said there. I totally agree with that.

Dave : But, hey look, now you’ve got some-

Ed : You just threw some geographical information to me that surprised me more than his message.

Dave : Oh, right. Well, it’s a thing. Yeah, look it up. Poles can shift.

Ed : Well, this is … let’s go back to what he said.

Dave : I mean, it’s a big … like, can there be a volcano in the middle of California kind of chance. But it happens every once in a while.

Ed : It doesn’t happen bang on every thousand years.

Dave : No, no. No.

Ed : Oh, okay. Fine. Well, I’ll sleep better tonight.

Dave : But we’re due one.

Ed : So, back to Godin.

Dave : Yeah. Right. Well, that was kind of, like, my whole point. I was just saying that that’s what he got me to think about, was like, that … It’s not that we cross over into marketing, obviously, with what we do. We have to speak the language of marketing in order to do our jobs properly. But, of course, we’re not exclusively marketeers. But I do feel, often, that we’re in the mercenary parts of the marketing machine sometimes. And you wanna go, “Hang on, just, can we … Gotta keep this real.” So, it’s nice to know that there’s someone out there that thinks like that and believes that marketing should not be some mercenary experience. It should actually be helping people find the right things, and that’s all.

Ed : What would you give the book out of five starts?

Dave : Five.

Ed : Really?

Dave : 100%.

Ed : If you wanna win that, what you need to do is email bizunplugged@gmail.com and give us a slug line for Hemel Hempstead. Not too rude.

Dave : And it can mention the magic roundabout, apparently. But you gotta be clever and new with that. I want something fresh.

Ed : Yeah. Okay. It can’t be about frustration. It needs to be about what a feat of engineering it is.

Dave : Yes. My one was about frustration. But I thought I was being funny. But ’cause, because I thought that’s what you do when you … supposed to live in Britain. It’s supposed to be dry and not serious about everything. But, okay. You can say something nice about Hemel. Go ahead. Hit me with your best. Or worst.

Ed : Are we done?

Dave : Done.

Ed : Alright, so. Next week’s show, we’ve actually got Seth Godin on.

Dave : Again.

Ed : No. In person.

Dave : What?

Ed : Yeah, I didn’t tell you this.

Dave : Really?

Ed : I figured that, if we publicly announce that he’s on and he doesn’t turn up-

Dave : Sean Connery couldn’t [crosstalk 00:24:19]

Ed : We can blame him and say what a horrible person he was.

Dave : That’s genius.

Ed : And now he must feel obliged.

Dave : I was just talking about empathy and service, and you just brought it all down.

Ed : I know. Maybe I should read that book.

Ed : Anyway, next week, Seth Godin. If he turns up. See if he’s still a man of the people like he says he is. We’ll get him one day.

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